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Post by docky on Oct 27, 2019 13:53:54 GMT -8
As I was thinking about something allot of players including Hobbit had said, that there wasn't much to get players to RP or engage with the game outside of cycling. That made me think about the group most affected by this, the demons. In practice Demons are supposed to be the other half of the Afterlife coin, torturers of damned souls, however demons don't really tend do this outside of really weak souls they do not like. Why is that? Demons are also expected to oppose the Kais, which creates a weird situation where they're expected to torture souls for no real benefit. The other thing I want to bring up real quick is Soul Absorb, it rewards demons for being antagonists however it does little to reward them for being "Torturers of Hell" as the skill only rewards Demons for absorbing living souls which usually means invading the living realm. So this is my suggestion, and there's a few parts to it (I'm open to feedback to further refine these ideas, as I'm just spit-balling these.): - Soul Torture: If Demons still lack anger like they did in the Test Wipe, then a substitution for that could be what I'm calling "Soul Torture" basically if a demon spars a soul (or fights them without consent via RP of course.) They gain what other races would call anger except it lasts much longer, and the more evil the soul the higher the cap for this anger. This would ensure Demons have a reason to torture and interact with souls rather than just treat them like pests that fall from the sky occasionally.
- Evil Extraction Machine: Instead of Souls Absorb, Demons should get a machine or device or whatever structure in Hell that allows them to extract the negative energy of Evil Souls, in the process reincarnating that soul. The more evil that soul, the more power a demon gets from consuming it's bad guy juice.
- Juice Overdose: If a Demon or Kai who for whatever reason consumes an excessively large amount of evil energy they run the risk of turning into a manifestation of Pure Evil. Pure Evil is capable of teleporting itself and only itself freely while losing it's Demon abilities as well as the ability to reproduce at all. (Yes this would be Janemba)
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Post by nihilsr on Oct 27, 2019 14:09:40 GMT -8
I do not agree with Soul Torture.
I suggest instead adding an ability to Demons that allows them to absorb 10% of the target's maximum energy and give them a pl boost based on how evil the target is(10 years cooldown per person, meaning multiple demons cant suck one person dry). Only useable on Tainted+.
Evil Extraction Machine should be given to Checkpoint Guardian instead and allow people to reincarnate with 10% of PG added on TOP of the PG that 1st gens start with at that point in the wipe.
I agree with Juice Overdose. It could be a perm trans until death.
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Post by Manlypink69 on Oct 27, 2019 18:19:34 GMT -8
So I do have a couple of questions before I give my opinion.
Would the power from the juice be a permananet boost like bio absorb (I.E It sits on top of your current but acts more like gravity) or would be a boost that slowly goes away with time?
Would the machine be clunky to use?
I think these ideas would be fucking cool to see in the game, and would give Demons an RP reason to get evil souls sent down to hell. It'd encourage Demons through wanting to seek power, but also not being something they NEED to do. and I love the idea that if a Demon overdoses on the power juice they pretty much lose themselves and turn into a raving monster. I THINK something else that'd be kind of cool, if a Janemba happens, Souls would allowed to exist in the living realm, like the barrier between the two is broken.
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Post by skeletorexplains on Oct 27, 2019 22:11:17 GMT -8
It's a no from me, dog.
The way they are written is just "Give demons power, we want more power, give us more" And it doesn't really..fit...into anything? Nor is it balanced.
A) No player will want to be someones battery for years. there is no Pro to them & the entire process is abusable. This just gives players another reason to just remake cause theres no benefit to them.
B) Nearly all of these things are from DBZ movies, but you made them for hell only..even tho they happened in the afterlife AKA Neutral domain? Like its weird you're using movie sources but adapting them only for 1 side.
they all read as incredibly abusable & should never be added, It isn't fair to give 1 side out of the two a TON of ways to train & then heaven just has to sit around doing nothing, forever. There is no balance to this idea.
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Post by docky on Oct 28, 2019 14:30:55 GMT -8
"I do not agree with Soul Torture.
I suggest instead adding an ability to Demons that allows them to absorb 10% of the target's maximum energy and give them a pl boost based on how evil the target is(10 years cooldown per person, meaning multiple demons cant suck one person dry). Only useable on Tainted+."
I don't really see the point of this, I prefer things to be automatic when they can be made to be so rather than adding another verb to reduce visual clutter.
"Evil Extraction Machine should be given to Checkpoint Guardian instead and allow people to reincarnate with 10% of PG added on TOP of the PG that 1st gens start with at that point in the wipe."
Hmmm, I don't know about reincarnation if the Checkpoint Guardian has it, going down to hell to reclaim a soul is a risky business. What if instead of the weird trap door that nobody falls for any more the Checkpoint Guardian uses the machine to send souls straight to Hell, after filtering out their evil, encouraging demons to go and try to get juice by invading the checkpoint.
"Would the power from the juice be a permanent boost like bio absorb (I.E It sits on top of your current but acts more like gravity) or would be a boost that slowly goes away with time?"
I was thinking it would be temporary, albeit it'd be rough to permanently off a character just for a temporary boost, it should probably function as Soul Absorb did.
"Would the machine be clunky to use?"
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
"The way they are written is just "Give demons power, we want more power, give us more" And it doesn't really..fit...into anything? Nor is it balanced."
That's essentially the problem with Soul Absorb, Demons suck people for power and snowball until they're outrageously powerful. With the evil extraction machine, then every last soul in the universe isn't a potential Slurpee for free demon power, besides Demons are almost always antagonists they should be stronger than most players.
"A) No player will want to be someones battery for years. there is no Pro to them & the entire process is abusable. This just gives players another reason to just remake cause there's no benefit to them."
True, this was something I was also concerned about, that's why I said the idea was open to feedback. When it comes down to it, if it means holding on to their PG then people will stay dead for quite a while. For low gens and new players unaware of the generation system then being turned into a demon's personal sparring dummy would be infuriating with no potential return for their suffering, and even giving a hidden boost to being tortured like increased gains will lead to people refusing to believe it exists.
"B) Nearly all of these things are from DBZ movies, but you made them for hell only..even tho they happened in the afterlife AKA Neutral domain? Like its weird you're using movie sources but adapting them only for 1 side." And Makyos come from a movie and filler, what about it. The events of Fusion reborn happened in the afterlife, but it centered around Hell, the Processing machine was in hell, Janemba corrupted everything in Hell, and the battle with him occurred in Hell. When it comes down to it Kais don't really need more help if the other cardinal ranks get skills on par with the North kai, demons, on the other hand, have very little going for them if they don't overwhelm the Kais right off the bat.
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Post by skeletorexplains on Oct 28, 2019 17:38:59 GMT -8
Well Makyos are from movies & filler. Liberties are taken for the sake of balance, IE: Demons being in hell & not the demon planet cause hell needs more filling. Regardless, Makyo's arn't re-written to apply only to one 'side'. What i am saying is, the evil extraction machine etc, was all located near the judging area. It was in neutral domain so demons couldn't get to it. There just doesn't seem to be a 'fair' way to balance these mechanics you are suggesting.
Kai's cardinal skills are currently incredibly terrible (Besides kaioken i guess?) And if they are re-written, the only way i can see demons getting something to put them 'on par' with those cardinal skills is for the DL to get 'cardinal skills' unique to hell. But the advantage for Hell is fairly obvious, More people go to hell than heaven (Not all the time, but a strong amount) so while the kais have more power, the demons have more numbers naturally.
There needs to be a way to balance their numbers & power to give them better rp, with as little damage to the Community.
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